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Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:49:49 . . . . Ingiald [Well, now that that's settled...]

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=== Proposed Conditions of Rejection ===
(By InterruptorJones -- your revisions needed!)

A character, place, or object is a Reject if and only if X or more of the below conditions are met:
*It does not have any lines or important role in any toon
*It appears in only one toon
*It is only mentioned or appears in passing
*No character interacts with it

The above are my opinion; I would like the community as a whole to come to a decision regarding this. Please don't change this list or the "X" -- I left it ambiguous on purpose; instead, comment below.

= Da Comments go here! =

I think anything should be counted as a reject if it meets even just one of the criteria, unless decided differently by an overwhelming majority. Think about it. To understand a one-time mention character such as the Thnikkaman, one needs only log onto the sight, but if someone watches the flashback email and sees Senor Cardgage, they won't understand without knowledge of kind of cool.
-The Brothers E

Hey if someone could post pictures for all this crap, that'd be just great. yeah. I think stuff should only go here if you can put a picture with it...not just a stupid retarded one line comment to fill up an entire page.

Excardon me, but NOT ALL OF US ARE COMPUTER GENIUSES THAT KNOW HOW TO GET PICS OFF THE INTERNET! Does that mean we can't display what we think is necessary?
Mrs. Bad

Why not just put the one-liners right here on this page instead of making separate pages for each of the rejects? -- DungeonGirl

Weeeeeeelllll...if we did that and posted pictures, it'd be way way too much for one page. I mean, how many "don't fit" pages have been BALEETED?? they're all gonna go here anyway. AgentSeethroo

I'll get some pictures. --Upsilon

Good Jorb, Upsilon! AgentSeethroo

Whoever created this page, I like it a lot. Especially the name and the funny graphic at the top. -- InterruptorJones

I agree, I can't wait to get started on some of this stuff. The style of "kind of poking fun at them for being 'rejects'" is... so great. -- Tom

Credit is given to TallAndMerciless, but good ole me organizeratified it...nothing was linking to it before. I think this is one of the coolest ideas anyone has had on here. AgentSeethroo

Thanks, Jones and Tom, and thanks to Seethroo and Upsilon for tacking on to it. -TallAndMerciless

Or a page for each category then... it just seems silly to have to wait for a new page to load every time someone is curious about one of these rejects. And no one said the pictures all have to be huge. -- DungeonGirl

Hey i was the one who started this with my question on wikichat!
Another Fan

I didn't make the character pictures huge in purpose; that's how big they are on the screen and there didn't seem to be much point in resizing them, since they're PNGs. As for the locations, you have to see the whole screen to get a proper idea of the place, don't you? --Upsilon

hmm...I added Homestar Junior to objects and characters...cause I guess it's kinda both?? AgentSeethroo

== A long note.... ==
The content on this page is all of the things that don't fit in anyplace else. The discussion on this Wiki is all about declaring things, organizing, finding connections, and discussing Homestar Runner. Everything that is here is here because it is not easily categorized, because it is disputable, because it is minor, or because it is sort of on the fringe. This means that a lot of the things worth discussing and hopefully worth arguing about are on this page.

What does THAT mean? It means that things on this page are going to be focal points of discussion. It means that before long this page will not want to be called 'Rejects,' but might want to be called 'The Fringe,' or, 'Obscurities,' or something like that.

All of you might also want to take note: as Homestar Runner grows in interest and popularity, scholars and media critics who study entertainment will be looking at places like this to see what has been written and said. This site has already become more than just a chat room, and is in fact already something of a discursive publication about a pop culture phenomenon. So, think before and as you write, write complete sentences, and say hi to your mom. -TallAndMerciless

(in reply to long note) The approach I'm taking on [My Site] is to have a page for each "item", linked too from appropriate category pages (toons linked to from toon pages, big budget characters from character pages, etc) and then to have everything get linked to from a "dictionary", which is kind of an alphabetical index of all things discussable. That way I don't won't have to stress as much about things being "mainstream" vs. "fringe" vs. falling between the cracks of the two. I've just got "mainstream" vs. an index that covers everything. It also sidesteps having to categorize the oddities (eg homestar jr, the character or the object?) though I may name a thing a half a dozen ways to put it anywhere someone could look in the index (eg "homestar jr" in the H's, "jr, homestar" in the J's type stuff)
True, I don't have my dictionary prepared yet, my site's only about half fleshed out.. but when I get to that step that's how I'm planning on doing it. I'm just saying that approach might work here too.
MetaStar [Metastar's Fanpage]

To be honest, I rather agree with MetaStar here. I think there's a lot of stuff that's been relegated to Rejects that oughtn't have been. A lot of the locations (like "Behind the Fence"), but I'd probably move at least half the characters back out of Rejects and into the main space. The only things I tend to think don't deserve their own pages are things with one-line & one-toon references (e.g. Biscuit Dough Hands Man) and things which are just different versions of other things (e.g. Eh! Steven). Everything else, in my opinion, has a distinct place in the Wiki and the H*R canon as a whole. Anybody agree? -- InterruptorJones

Agreed. Like, for instance, Lem Sportsinterviews. No way he's a reject. He DEFINITELY deserves his own page. -- Gemini

* The problem with this is that items would have to qualify for this page. This page is currently catching anything that does not fit any place else. Instead of defining what an item needs to be to be a reject, define the following: Main Character, Secondary Character, Main Place, Secondary Place. You can then define a Reject as something that cannot fit in those places. If you go ahead with your currently proposed definition, then you will see BALEETEDs galore again very soon. I will also suggest that a lot of people dont want their pages moved here because they think REJECTS is negative. They want THEIR discovery or favorite to have the same status as the main characters and places. Perhaps a second Rejects style page is needed which has a name that will be less threatening to some. -TallAndMerciless

**Exactly, we would have to decide if a Reject is a classification of exclusion or not. We really need to work on getting some sort of basic rules for something. Like there are only 12 "Characters," but what makes something a Secondary Character? Or a Secondary anything, for that matter? If it was mentioned twice? If we have a picture of it? I like the Rejects page because I was able to put stuff like Rejects/The Smoke Detector here. (No arguement there.) And then there's InsideJokes to consider. Can something be both a Secondary something and an Inside Joke? I'd like us to come up with a really good set of requirements that we would all agree on. It would probably take a while, but I think it would cut back on the arguing a lot, and work better in the long run. -- Tom

***Weel, If we approached this as a "dictionary" or an "index" instead of calling it "rejects" many of these problems would be solved. People seem to think that categories should be *exhaustive*. Thus they feel the characters' page isn't complete without Thnikkaman. An Index would do the trick because it is meant to be exhausive. If the character you are looking for isn't on the character's page, check the index. It also takes care of not knowing what category a thing belongs to. Is it a character? Allegedly it talked.. or is it a joke, or more of a reference? Who cares, it's here in the index. That also prevents people from feeling that their favorite gags are "inferior" or "rejected", if the index includes links to all the normal fair as well.
Also I think that anything discussable should have a page as long as someone wants to make it and/or maintain it. Everything in the index should be linked to not just displayed inline. That way, when (yes when ;) the Chaps decide to make yon Smoke Alarm part of a subtle and very funny joke in the future, you just link back to the until-then-useless Smoke Detector page. Pages are cheap on a wiki, you just have to keep the namespace clean :)
- - MetaStar [Metastar's Fanpage]

I think that if it is has a role in a cartoon, is mentioned and/or is featured in more than one cartoon, is mentioned directly and not in passing, and another character interacts/reffers to it as being real, than it counts as being a character. Thus, Trogdor, The Goblin, Gavin, Visor Robot, and The Two Kids can all be considered characters.

geeze...this is frustrating. AgentSeethroo

The word that is missing here is CAMEO. When a character has a big role once in a while, its doing a cameo appearance. That might be worth adding as a category. TallAndMerciless

So...maybe we should have a category that's called something like "big cameos by little characters" or something goofy like that? AgentSeethroo

just noticing something missing on there you have Zubs but you dont have coach B which is coach Z's head on bubs' body

Gotcha. AgentSeethroo

I need to apologize for my earlier comment. It was just plain rude. So, here goes. I'm sorry. There. I said it.
Seriously though, I'm thinking of reorganizing and renaming the Rejects page. Let's discuss that further. AgentSeethroo

I agree. Its a needed area, but since its called 'Rejects' no one wants their favorite things on it. Anything anyone wants to list should be able to have a place, but we dont want to clutter up the clean and organized lists with random crap. Right now, though, it is serving as a nice holding tank for things waiting for a proper category to be made. I think there should be no Miscellaneous or anything like that around. That's sloppy dramaturgy.
Other possibilities for the title of the Rejects page include curiosities, anomolies, outskirts, peripheral, oddities, eccentricities, misfits, details, particulars, debatables, items of contention, fringe, and gags. -TallAndMerciless

Personally, I like misfits. -Stu

hmm...oddities is good..eccentricities is better...let's make a poll. AgentSeethroo

I'm with Jones on this. To be a character, the object in question should have at be mentioned in at least more than one cartoon. Doregard, for instance, only appeared once and should therefore not be considered anything more than a one-time joke until; heard from again. Same with The Thnikaman and Stickly Man. Once these guys are mentioned again, I'll be all for putting them in there own locations. I also agree with MetaStar about the Index idea.
-The Brothers E

You obviously don't agree with Jones because according to his criteria, Stickly Man is a character. Read it again. -CE5

Actually, I originally wrote "if and only if X or more of the below conditions are met", but then someone changed X to 2 (I wish they'd commented below instead..) and then someone else changed it to "if and even one of the below conditions are met" which isn't even sensible, grammatically speaking. I really believe that we need a solid set of requirements, though, and I wish people would post a list just like mine but with their revisions. I don't even know if I'd follow my list, actually. Of the pages currently listed on Rejects, I'd personally like to see the following Un-Rejected:

*The Yello Dello - she has a toon named after her!
*Lem Sportsinterviews - he has something like a dozen references
*The Thnikkaman - (see below)
*Trivia Time - lots of cookie jar appearances; just fun
*Senor Cardgage - Um.. I just like him?

That's pretty much it. Basically the sorts of things I want to see Rejected are:
*One-time gags like Biscuit-Dough-Hands-Man.
*one-off characters like Eh! Steven, Evil Strong Sad, etc.
**NOT Thnikkaman -- he's a main character's alter-ego whom most all of us expect to see again, not dissimilar to Fat Dudley or Stinko Man, and plays an important role in a toon
*Objects that don't have names and aren't running gags (e.g. the shovel, etc.) .. I'm not sure about Gooblies -- if someone made a Gooblies (non-reject) page, I wouldn't delete it, but I'm not gonna move it myself.

The frequency-of-appearance thing is something to consider. For example, if BDHM appeared once or twice more, I wouldn't be opposed to Un-Rejecting him. But I wouldn't say the same thing for Kevin, for example, since all of his references have been the epitome of in passing.

It's not a black-and-white issue and there will always be debate. I personally think that if there's a reasonable amount of debate for something (and by reasonable I mean that more than two people are interested and it's not a landslide) then we should default to Un-Reject instead of Reject. But that's just me.

-- InterruptorJones

I hate to burst your bubble, Jones, but The Yello Dello, The Thnikkaman, and Senor Cardgage are one-time only. -CE5

I said "one-time gags". The Yello Dello is an actual character about whom there's an entire cartoon. Like I said, this isn't black-and-white nor can we pretend that it is. And if you'll go read my post again, I did happen to explicitly state: "I don't even know if I'd follow my list, actually." -- InterruptorJones

Senor Cardgage has that thing in Flashback too. - SephirothBadRel

Senor Cardgage has no appearances. That's Creepy-Comb-Over Strong Bad that actually has any appearances. Senor Cardgage has only one mention and that is in StrongBadEmail/kind of cool. -CE5

As you can see, most people believe that Creepy Comb-Over Strong Bad is Senor Cardgage. Maybe Senor Cardgage should just redirect to CCOSB. -- InterruptorJones

Here are my preferences for rules of charactership:
*It has an important role in the cartoon that affects at least the outcome (pro Thnikkaman, Sticklyman, and Dello)
*It is actually in a cartoon, no references (ditto)
*It interacts with another character
*It is in more than one cartoon
The only clear-cut definet one is the first one. If it has that, it is defenetly a character, also, if it has 2-3 of the others, but not the first, it, with some debate, is a character. These are listed from most to least important. If it only has two of the others and one is the 4th, it is not a character. Some people think that this should be the only factor controlling whethere it is a character or not, but I believe it is least important. For example, I definitely think that The Yello Dello and Stickly Man are characters. Just because they only appear in one cartoon does not mean they're not characters. Also, if you want something to go in rejects, don't just delete it and say "Rejected". You either have to delete it, alter all pages it was on to reject form, and add it under rejects, or, if you're too lazy, just leave it alone. I do not see why it bothers someone so much that Sticklyman is a character that they feel that it has to be deleted. As for this page, I agree about the index thing. -CE5

The Yello Dello is definitely a character. Stickly Man is, with a stretch of the imagination, a character, although that was a short and I'm not sure it should be counted as a meaningful enough appearance. The Thnikkaman, however, is not a character. He is a briefly appearing, alternate version of Bubs. If someone dresses up in a costume and puts sunglasses on, that does not make them a character, any more than either the various Halloween costumes that the characters have been in are counted as seperate characters. Under your rules, Lem Sportsinterviews would also count as a reject, because he only counts under rules three and four, despite an overwhelming presence on the site. So I ultimately would tend to disagree with your rules. Take a look at what's actually here, and then write your rules to reflect that. - Jweb Guru

Okay, The Thnikkaman isn't a character. He is worth mentioning outside of this page, though, most likely on a subpage of Bubs. All aliases that are not 1936 or 20X6 should be a subpage of the character that they are an alternate of. I can't think of a set of rules that would make everyone happy, this is just an example. I do think that whether it has an important role in a cartoon is one of the important ones, though. Okay, how's this?:

These are listed from most to least important.
#The character's presence and/or interactions affects the outcome of the cartoon
#The character is in more than one cartoon
#The character is actually in the cartoon
#The character interacts with and/or is mentioned by other characters directly

I'm sure there's a flaw in that list. Like I said, I don't think there's a set of rules that can please everyone. I don't think there's a set of rules possible that could 100% please any one person. -CE5

I think the biggest flaw is the "affects the outcome" bit. 90% of the toons on the site don't have outcomes! -- ij

I mean "the plot". Meaning that the if that character were not in the cartoon, the cartoon would have at least ended differently than it did. I feel that any alternates that aren't 1936 or 20X6 (Creepy Comb-Over Strong Bad, Modestly Hot Homsar, Rockin' Marzipan, Firebert, Zubs, Coach B, etc.) should be subpages of the characters that they really are. -CE5

Does anyone else feel as though the Rejects are getting a little ridiculous? Come on people Not The Panama Canal? Is this neccessary?
-The Brothers E

Yeah, it's really ridiculous. Several times each day I'm forced to physically restrain myself from razing the whole thing. -- InterruptorJones

Wow, this is just dumb. Why would people waste space on junk like that? You people are better than that. -Arro

I think it's worth the time to mention the rejects, but spending so much space argureing about what makes a reject and setting up rules for it is sorta dumb. ~The Zarg

maybe what you should do is create a seperate page for "characters you don't see anymore" because the only true rejected characters are Homeschool Winner, The Ungriats, and Dijjery-doo

What about Trivia Time, Strong Glad, and the carrot-looking guy? -DanielLC

Holy crap. Strong Glad was a joke. "The carrot-looking guy"? That obviously never WAS a character. Trivia time is and will be a reject until the Bros. Chaps decide to throw it in a cartoon by name. "'oh look, there's trivia time' says Strong Bad."
Agent "tempted to BALEET rejects" Seethroo

Dijjery Doo, The Ungriats, Homeschool, and possibly Trivia Time need some special catagory because they were once supposed to be made character but now aren't. "The Carrot Guy" is a case very similar to Dijjery-Doo. He never made it off the sketchbook in any way. Although, for some reason, he was on the page with Bubs and Coach Z. ("Don't know who the carrot-looking guy was supposed to be." "A Cheat-like prankster who was abandoned for being too Cheat-like, and to walrus-like".) On a similar note, there is a "Raddish Guy", as I like to call him, with leaf-wings in the "Homestar Runner Goes for the Gold" sketch, and I don't want anybody to make him a character. I'd like to say in advance that he's a reject. "Strong Glad" was TBC making fun of their attempts at making Strong Sad. It's not even a reject, in my opinion. Trivia Time was once supposed to be a character but before they found a good version, they turned him into an object. Both The Ungriats and Homeschool Winner were originally supposed to be characters and were even in a very old characters page but, for some reason, were never used in a toon. Like I said at the beginning, those four should have their own little group. -CE5

and how could coach z's z be rejected its in every toon he's in, and for trivia time it says that there still looking for a good design

Coach Z's Z is a reject because it plays no important roles in any cartoons and no one refers to it. Same thing for Trivia Time. -CE5

Also, Coach Z's Z is NOT in every toon Coach Z is. There was only one time Coach Z didn't have his Z: in Homestarloween Party, where it was replaced with a clock.

That's not the point. The point is that Coach Z's "z" has never had an important impact on any storyline. I mean, has Coach Z ever actually used his "Z"? No! Also, no one ever talks about it. Has this ever happened?:
HOMESTAR RUNNER: Oh, hey, Coach Z, that's a nice Z! COACH Z: Thanks!
No it hasn't. Therefore, it is in no way a character.

Oh, and to Brothers E, you said that the anouncer is a not a reject because "we don't have to know anything about him exept becuase he appears in more than one place." You have repeatedly said that you feel a character needs only to have one of the criteria to be a reject. In that case, the announcer is a reject because A): He has no important role in a cartoon B): No characater interacts with him. That's definatly two, so he is a reject. -CE5

HERE HERE! Thank you CE5! Agent "I agree with him for the first time EVER" Seethroo

CE5, I concede The Announcer. However, I ask you then why you constantly insist on moving Nebulon out of Rejects? I do not understand your justification, especially after what you've written here, and on my Userspace: "just because something appeared in more than one place does not make it a character. We have to know something about the character and it has to actually affect the role of the cartoon it's in."
-The Brothers E

Nebulon appears in more than one place, is talked to by other characters, and appears in the open. It is, with some debate, a character. I personally beleive taht it
is. -CE5

The announcer guy appears in 3 cartoons, and has lines, but he still has absolutlely no impact on anything, so I do not consider him a main character. - Sunnythehamstar

Wow. Nebulon has less going for him than the announcer...therefore REJECTED! Agent "I told you this would happen" Seethroo

Anyone notice that The Thnikkaman is in rejects twice?

But what's with that disscussion in the "Gooblies" section?
-Stinkoman K

to be honest i think this whole thing is a little messed up, when a chracter appears ina toon you cant instantly call it rejected, diffrent town song characters are variations, and just as imortant as say the 1936 characters or the 20x6 characters, rejects are characters who were once ideas to be main characters but then decided against for whatever reason, you cant just take anyrandom joke on the site and call it rejected, and im sure the brother's chaps would feel the same way if they saw this

Are Awwww Gratin Potatoes a reject? - Da Bee

Hey, if you can find something that's in a couple toons, preferably with a screenshot, and can write a little ditty about it, then by all means, add away. -- Tom

THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL! What, is Homsar's Letters on his shirt a reject because they
don't do anything? Is The Cheat's Spots a reject? HUH? HUH? - The Very Angry Conductor


If H*R somehow made Aww Gratin potatoes something in need of indexing on this site, then do it. This seems a bit like the 'Acapulco' discussion a while back. Usually this happens when one of the younger wiki users encounters something on H*R that is actually pretty common, but they happen to have not encountered it yet. At that point, they often think that the Brothers C invented it, or, if it reminds them of something they have seen in LOTR or something like that, they decide it is a pop culture reference. To anyone like this, I say, hey, try it out, post it, maybe it will be rejected. If it is, well, have thick skin and keep submitting if you want to. But everyone needs to understand that the various levels of cultural experience coming through this site will have pretty diverse reactions to things. -TallAndMerciless

ummm...has anyone got any pictures of awww gratin potatoes? - A curious bee

this whole section is pointless, i really think a lot of the things on here should be removed, homeschool winner, the unnamed girl, dijery-doo, and the ugriats are the only rejcted character

Oh yeah? Well I think that all of these (with the exception of Zubs and Coach B) should be here.-Homsar Runner

ok this will end it............................how can anything be a reject if it was put in a homestar cartoon? It was obviously put there, it didnt just appear, so how can it it be rejected? Stuff like the biscuit dough hands man are just stuff to laugh at and shouldnt be taken seriously like this. Nothing is a reject if it actually makes it onto the official site. This is what a reject should be...Strong Passive-Agressive. Is that on the official Homestar Runner site? NO. Therefore it is a reject made by a fan. None of the things in the rejects section are rejects they are just very minor objects/characters in theh*r world. There we go. --UnknownHzrd--

I think Senor Cardgage no longer qualifies as a reject. I do think Creepy comb-over Strong Bad does, though. --furrykef

UnknownHzrd, you are so right. I take back what I said earlier. I can't belive I didn't realize that earlier. That DOES end it. At least I hope so.-Homsar Runner

You guys weren't here when Rejects was started, so you really don't know WHY it was started.
People kept putting stupid stupid characters on the characters page, like biscuit dough hands man and things like that.
He's not a character, just something to be laughed at, like you said. I think the case was just that people wanted to contribute and make pages, and so they made pages out of WHATEVER...and I do mean whatever.
We needed a place for these stupid pages that didn't really belong anywhere, so we placed them here. If you'd read above, you'd see that we are trying to find a new name for this page. Rejects has such a negative connotation, and we don't want this page to be a Homestar Runner "garbage can." I'm going to start a thread on the Forum about this page, and we'll try to get it all sorted out.
~ AgentSeethroo

Well thankyou for agreeing. Both of you. Dont get me wrong though I do appreciate the effort put in to making these "reject" pages. Theyre fun to read, but yes it does need a new name. Something not so negative. Something more like i dont know. Something witty. I cant come up with anything right now......anything good........
Honorary homeStars
Thats all I got......UnknownHzrd

I think that the ATM machine shouldn't be in rejects. It is a main part of Experimental Film, and it has its own page, the Downloads page.

I have a suggestion for a new name. How about "Miscellaneous Things"?-Lord Pikachon

I think I has the solution! "Ancillaries"! In literature, "ancillary" means a character that has no real pourpose in the story. Their only pourpose is, wait, they don't really serve a pourpose, except to sit their. They usually have very few lines and are sometimes only mentioned. If they were removed from the plot, the story wouldn't be any different. That's my idea for the name.
Also, any "spinoff" characters, unless they occupy another universe, such as 1936, 20X6, and Cheat commandos, should be a subpage of the original character. For example: (Bubs/Zubs), (Coach Z/Coach B) Or, at least, there should be a "spinoffs" list on the page of every character that has one.
As for Trivia Time, Dijjery-Doo, Homeschool Winner, The Ungriats, and maybe The Unnamed Girl, they should be considered "rejects", along with The Announcer, The Grape Fairy, and The Bee, maybe.

Those are my opinions. Feel free to argue. -Ingiald

Excellent ideas! I think this merits further discussion. Not all of the current rejects really belong there, therefore I am fully for spin-off subpages! It'll take some work, but that's the point of the Wiki, right? What are other thoughts?
-The Brothers E

Do you like the name I thought up? Anyway, that ol' ATM should probably be a character, because it A: It is the main focus of experimental film, B: It appears in more than one place, (if you count downloads), C: It appears "out in the open", and D: Strong Sad, Strong Bad, and Strong Mad all interact with it. -Ingiald

I don't think it's a character, but I don't necessarily think it belongs in rejects.
If you'd check the forum, there's a [discussion about the rejects page] going on already. I'd appreciate if you'd record all your thoughts and ideas in there.
Thanks. ~ AgentSeethroo