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== The Essay on Grammatical Correctness Comments == This page is designed specifically for comments related to the Essay on Grammatical Correctness subpage. ----- This is a great page. How come I didn't think of this? Most of these are featured on the CD in StrongBadEmail/local news -CE5 ----- You are, of course, correct. This is only the beginning. Besides, it would appear that a lot of people have not watched that particular Easter Egg. Funny, that. - Jweb Guru ----- I would like to say: Many people think it looks "cool" to spell something excactly how it is prounounced. Unfortunately, English isn't always 100% phoenetic. eg: Pleez stop it. leev mee ulone. Yes, in a perfect world, everything looks like it sounds, but for an explanation as for why our language isn't phoenetic, please go to Wikipedia and search for "alphabet". -CE5 ----- I must agree with CE5, here. People, you are not making yourselves look cool by spelling English phonetically. For heaven's sake, half of you don't even pronounce it correctly as it is. - Jweb Guru ----- I hate it when people WrItE lIkE ThIs because they think it looks cool. Also, superfluous punctuation (like this!!!!!!) is stupid. -DG ----- Thank you, Dark Grapefruit. I'll take it under advisement, though I really think this falls under the section I already completed related to capitalization - though you're onto something with this superfluous punctuation. Hmmmmm... Thank you, CE5, for correcting my smiley. I'm afraid I've never bothered to learn the correct way to use them, as it all falls under the same general category to me. I remain content with the way that my stay at this Wiki has been thus far. Once more, thank you both for commenting. - Jweb Guru ----- I'm not sure, but I don't think "was" on "It Was a Beautiful Day" needs a capital. : - Co ----- In fact, to the best of my knowledge it does. But as you can see, that's why we desperately need this page. It bespeaks the briefness of life and the silliness that goes into it. Or some such. Double deucing, Sid FreHoffman Guru ----- Language is organic -- that is, it's something that grows and changes and develops over time. One consequence is that different dialects develop in different regions -- so that I pronounce Mary (a as in care), marry (a as in cat), and merry (e as in Ted) differently but people in other regions might pronounce them all the same way. Another consequence is that the dialect used by the upper classes or those in positions of power and authority becomes the standard. Hence the French words for animals like boeuf (beef) became the terms for the meat of these animals, because the French-speaking Normans were the ruling class in England and hence got to eat the nice meals. The Anglo-Saxon words -- cow -- became the terms for the animals themselves, because the Anglo-Saxons were the ones tending the animals. Technically, there's no such thing as a correct form of language. Correctness in language is a social phenomenon. So, the abbreviations and substitutions commonly used in IM and email are a natural consequence of language development. I don't think there's anything wrong with such usage in such applications. On the other hand, in order to succeed in society, you have to be able to use language in the ways society considers correct and standard. Hence, you ought to spell out "you" and not write "u" in a paper for your English class or on a college application. -- DungeonGirl ----- I applaud your work, it's simply outstanding. However, you're fighting a losing battle, perhaps an already lost battle. But regardless, thanks for being a crusader for the educated. Wishing I could write all purdy, AgentSeethroo ----- Far be it from me to accuse English of being an unchanging language, DungeonGirl. However, I personally despise the abbreviations, which I feel can easily lead to confusion, make a page look less professional, and tends to change rather more than the base of the English language that can be found in any dictionary. Although I disapprove of the way that chatters have decided to modify English, I can do very little about it. This essay was to primarily be a reference - not necessarily a guide to one's life. However, if it is treated that way, so much the better. Transparent Agent, you've been a source of continual support to the Jweb Guru (i.e. me). Thanks very much. I hope they unban Homestar Runner from your office. Wishing you both the very best, Jweb Guru ----- Thank you for making this! I am such a grammar stickler! However, I have a question. Is it okay to capatilize words when you're putting emphasis on them? Example: I like Homestar but I LOVE STRONG BAD!! -PrincessofStrongBadia ----- Well, princess, it's technically correct to capitalize for emphasis. I suppose I should add that to the list. However - and this is important - generally one can use bold, italics, large sizes, or a combination thereof to make one's point just as effectively. It's a personal choice, really, but I would tend to frown upon the use of capitalization for emphasis unless it is part of the formatting. - Glad to clarify an important issue, Your Friendly Neighborhood Guru ----- Oh, I agree whole-heartedly that chat-type modifications of English make a webpage look unprofessional. All I was saying was that they're perfectly appropriate for the world of IM, email, and chatrooms. One thing to consider, of course, is the intended audience -- not all webpages are intended to be professional. I agree that it's useful to be as standard as possible on this site, because of the fairly wide audience of Homestar fans, and because writing that uses standard English tends to receive greater respect and attention than nonstandard writing. -- DungeonGirl ----- I still thank you for making this page! - PrincessofStrongBadia ----- Jweb, do you mind if I add to your essay? --TehMilkman ----- Certainly not, Dairy Man, provided that you maintain the format I'd already set up. I'm open to suggestions, and I've been a bit overwhelmed with work lately so I haven't gotten the chance to update it. This applies to everyone and anyone who wants to edit it, incidentally. Just please make sure that the rule being posted is, in fact, the correct rule before you add it to the list. Thank you, once again! - All's Web that Ends Guru ----------------------- The reason that people abbreviate as much as possible on chatrooms is that the chatroom only gives them a certain amount of space (maybe time) to type before it is posted. Here is what it's like: WitchesBrew112: Hello, all welcome Cheatachu98: I'm here WitchesBrew112: to today's disscuion HolyCrap457: Cheatachu, why are WithesBrew112: Today's discussion Cheatachu98: Why is it not HolyCrap457: late? The meeting WitchesBrew112: is about the price Cheatachu98: started yet? HolyCrap457: started like half WitchesBrew112: of melonade. Cheatachu98: Everyone's late HolyCrap457: an hour ago. WitchesBrew112: Any questions? Cheatachu98: today HolyCrap457 Yeah, including you. Sorry, I'd type more, but that's way too confusing. Anyway, that's why things are overabbreviated on chatrooms. The reason it is done on other places is becuase: a) People are too used to typing like they do on chatrooms or b) They are too lazy to spell things out. Either way, this stuff is unacceptable on wikis, or anywhere else, for that matter. Just because this way of writing is convenient for the programming of chats does not mean that we should let it affect our language as a whole. -CE5 ----- Of course, it's certainly not imperative that anyone type with abbreviations. Get one's typing speed fast enough and they become unnecessary. For example, I always use real English while chatting. I can demonstrate, if you IM me. I do understand why it developed. However, one of the problems with the abbreviations is that they allow people to say things like "LoL" when they have nothing to say. It therefore stifles intelligent discussion online, as well as - in truth - making it more difficult to understand. I similarly agree that, except on one's userspace, one should not use said abbreviations. Wiki pages are documents, some of them rather official, and official documents needn't have - and shouldn't have - abbreviations such as 'u' and 'r'. Even in the comments, it makes the page look rather unprofessional. That's why this "Grammar Reference Section", if you would, is here. So that people who aren't sure of the grammatical correctness of their posts can look it up. -The Grammar Guru ----- OK, I have added bits about "whose vs who's" and "their, there, and they're." Thanks for letting me amend the essay. --TehMilkman ----- I must say, I'm quite impressed with your work, Man of Milk. This was particularly true due to the immense amount of formatting I used on that page - nearly all of it was correct, and the remainder was easily fixed. This is just another example of the ways that a Wiki can be used to supplement the knowledge of individuals. I really would enjoy seeing more people add their own little pet peeves to the list, so that it can grow more and more complete until it is a relatively reliable resource. Once again, keep up the good work. Oh, and also, I don't want to forget to hail The Invisible Man for his willingness to correct the accidental WikiWord that I had unfortunately created when I typed 'LoL'. Let us all remember him, as someone determined to do what he thought was right. Someone who pulled through at a time of need. Someone who... ah, never mind. Suffice it to say that such corrections are welcome at any time on my pages. Thank you very much. - The Guru Who Brought you Jweb ----- OOOOooooohhhh...I'm ghastly! Gaze at my...transparent...ness? But seriously, no prob, knob. I does what I can. Agent "where'd he go??" Seethroo ----- Did you just use... ABBREVIATION? No PROB , knob. I am appaled. FireBird ---- Hehe, "Man of Milk" Hooray for special names! Well thank you very much for your appreciation. --T. Milkman ----- Very well...written. I like it. - The Bird that is in flames ----- Yo Fire Tweety, it's spelled "appalled." Just so you know. You know, for future reference. WHOWHATWHENWHEREWHYANDSOMETIMESHOW ----- Okay. Thank you for the reference, WHOWHATWHENWHEREWHTANDSOMETIMESHOW. ----- Yay for off-topicness! (is that a word? I think not.) -crap aka A, E, I, O, U and somethymes Y (when is it y?) The only time that I use chatspeak is in games like [GunBound], when you can't type and attack at the same time, and you only have 15 seconds until the computer skips your turn. --LrdKrkn ----- The only time I use "Chatspeak" is - wait, I don't use Chatspeak. Ever. It really isn't at all necessary. And I should probably update this essay fairly soon, before it moulders and fades away, rather like an old soldier but slightly less metaphorically. And of course, it's "y" in numerous cases, Car Lord. Or didn't you plan on using thyme in that latest recipe? It's very popular in Ypres, though I've heard it smells a bit strongly so you may want to clean up with lye. Or maybe you're just going to eat whole-wheat, rye bread all day. Maybe I'me proving a point. Who knows? Only some random guy out there. -J. Welderson ----- In conclusion, Chatspeak is confusing, it allows people to type meaningless things, e.g.: lol, gxhffh... is used by lazy idiots, and has no right to affect our language as a whole. -Grammatical Stickler |